Tylenol alone does not work, Tylenol with Codeine means an ambulance ride to the hospital for chest and back pains that make me roll in pain.

I can’t take many pills for pain as so many have codeine or morphine and I would be so screwed with the meds when I need them as for after surgery.

This drug should not be taken off the market. That is like saying codeine should be taken off. What are people to do when the have severe pain and need the medicine that works for them.

I like Darvocet, it’s good stuff. I’ve noticed it doesn’t work for things like headaches. But it’s excellent for tooth pain. The bulk of US usage is probably Orthodontic, because orthodontist hand that stuff out like candy. It works for that too, I only use it for toothaches. I think I’ve used for muscle aches and it was okay. From reading the comments, it seems European doctors are prescribing it for pains that it’s no good for. So people keep upping the dose until it kills them?

As far as codeine goes you can have that stuff. It causes me to see Hallucinations whenever I close my eyes, and prevents me from sleeping. Oh my body goes to sleep but I’m conscious. So I’m left with the choice of laying there all night hallucinating, or opening my eyes and laying there all night. Of course opening my eyes is the complicated bit, as it’s difficult to tell if they’re open, then actually opening them is hit or miss. Of course that all well and fine if you were wanting a recreational effect, but when you so tired and all you want to do is sleep, but you can’t, it’s not so good.

I think doctors should actively take patient feedback about the things they prescribe. That’s at least as important as what the manufacturer claims it does. Most doctors just turn you loose and don’t want to hear anything about it, unless you get worse.

In other news, in the current issue of Andjewandte, one of the authors in a paper has two first names that sound exactly like, or very close to, “Fuck yeah” and looks very close too. At least the way I pronounce it and the people in the following video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

The paper is right above the Dan Romo paper. I’m sure you’ll have no trouble finding it. For some reason, this has amused me all morning today.

P.S. No, I do not need it spelled out what the reason for my amusement is.

Besides, “in April 2002… warnings on Vioxx labelling concerning the increased risk of cardiovascular events”.

I don’t think you should accuse me of “giving drug companies a free pass”, and calling me “whorish”. Slander or libel? Besides, I’m not a chemist. I haven’t done a transformation in an RB in about 3 years.

“Pre-approval Phase III clinical trials, like the APPROVe study, showed no increased relative risk of adverse cardiovascular events for the first eighteen months of rofecoxib usage (Merck, 2004). Others have pointed out that “study 090,” a pre-approval trial, showed a 3-fold increase in cardiovascular events compared to placebo, a 7-fold increase compared to nabumetone (another [NSAID]), and an 8-fold increase in heart attacks and strokes combined compared to both control groups [8] [9]. Although this was a relatively small study and only the last result was statistically significant, critics have charged that this early finding should have prompted Merck to quickly conduct larger studies of rofecoxib’s cardiovascular safety. Merck notes that it had already begun VIGOR at the time Study 090 was completed. Although VIGOR was primarily designed to demonstrate new uses for rofecoxib, it also collected data on adverse cardiovascular outcomes.”

But I’ve been accused of being unable to see the trees for the forest before.

We cannot go back to the days of brushing responsibility for other’s errors onto the person that fell victim to them. Fortunately, society at large agrees with me. Unfortunately, it’s enforced in civil suits and not regulatory agencies. But, in the end, it doesn’t matter. It’s more than about protecting people from themselves, it’s about protecting people from those who have a natural greater interest in their money than their wellbeing.

Also, no one expected Vioxx to have horrible side effects based on medical trials. You’re wrong that no one expects to be a guinea pig when they go to the hospital. It’s not only with drugs, but with new medical technology that people will jump at a chance to be a guinea pig. If you’re a migraine sufferer who can’t take any of the traditional medicine for some reason, you might be tempted at a novel brain operation that turns off some part of your brain. What else will happen after the operation? Who the hell knows, as long as the daily migraines stop.

P.S. I know you have migraines, but I couldn’t come up with a better hypothetical example.

Except for this one case in Russia where a drug addict let them do an experimental treatment on him where they took out a little bit of his brain from the part responsible for addiction.

This expectation of flawless treatment is definitely something I have not noticed much before. Before antibiotics, relatives were afraid to go to Davos as they would catch tuberculosis from their nephew. The doctors there tried to get Thomas Mann to stay and he got scared and got out of the city as fast as he could after the obligatory few days with the wife who had bronchitis. A hospital was seen by some as a death sentence. That’s becoming true for some patients again with drug resistant bacteria that live in surgical wards. I try not to go to the doctor and take drugs unless I abosolutely have to. I still have that fear in me from all the early 20th century literature.

I really hate it when chemists give drug companies a free pass. It’s tacky and whorish.

Suggesting that they “just don’t take the drugs” is a hand waving bullshit argument intended to stop a debate ala principium tertii exclusi. There is an obvious other option: learn from it, take the drugs as prescribed (not longer, as the patients in the Vioxx case had been doing) and make sure these sorts of things are done correctly.

In the mean time, get out the checkbook ’cause you fucked up. Learn from it. Move on.